Pontiac Tech Info

For now this will be a misc collection. As it grows, I'll organize it.


Technical Article Index Index_Articles

Some good Tire Info

Here is a good chart on Firebird paint and plating info

Check here to see 67-67 subframe differences

Check here to ID Firebird cocktail shakers

Tire Size Conversion http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/size_conversion.htm

I.D. 60's Pontiac Big Cars 60-65 66-69

 Play ID the Spinner Hubcaps


Here's a nice Rotissary built by Todd Chynoweth


Here's the Plans:

rotisser.htm rot0.htm rot1.htm rot2.htm rot3.htm

rot4.htm rot5.htm rot6.htm rot7.htm rot8.htm

Thanks to Niklas Ridell for sending me the drawings VCC2.NRIDELL@MEMO.VOLVO.SE


Here's a cooling story from Joey on the GTO e-mail list

-----Original Message-----

From: Joey455FB@aol.com <Joey455FB@aol.com>

To: badgoat@gwi.net <badgoat@gwi.net>

Date: Monday, July 19, 1999 11:39 AM

Subject: Re: [gto2] Re: Coolant 'flowing too fast' (long & technical)



>Ok, this is the LONG version of what I did.  But it has a very short

>conclusion, which is get the biggest most efficient radiator you can find &

>use a quality water pump and fan.  If you are not interested in cooling,

>please do not read this whole message because it will probably be long.




>When I bought my 1st PONTIAC, a 69 FIREBIRD 400, it would occasionally run

>hot (200-230 degrees).  And I already had a good 3 core in it (good as in no

>leaks), but it still over heated.  First I tried running a 160 degree

>thermostat and the problem even happened on cooler days, but not at night. 

>So putting in a cooler thermostat didn't help the problem, in fact it made it

>worst.  Next I tried to totally pull the thermostat and this only made the

>problem worst.  Next I tried to use a 190 thermostat, a certified GM

>Goodwrench mechanic told me to try this.  And it worked, my car instantly

>went to running 190-200 degrees, 200 being the highest.  Although I am never

>happy w/ things like this because it should stay where the thermostat open,

>if it doesn't this is an indication that something is substandard for your

>application.  And the fact that in stop and go traffic the over heating

>problem would come back, just never as bad (220 degrees).  Next I checked

>into water pumps, so I dumped my cast iron water pump and purchased a

>"Flow-Kooler" pump, and a pusher fan from Jegs.  The pump helped, but the

>pusher fan did more harm than good because it blocked the radiator (this is

>not to say they never work, but not in a situation where the system is on the

>edge).  And at the same time, every time I added a performance up grade the

>temp. problem started to come back.  But I got it running good w/ the new

>pump and a new fan shroud, but the biggest help (and the cure) was a 7 blade

>fan out of a Suburban.  At this point I could run a 160 degree thermostat w/

>no problem.  And you have to realize I tried the 160, 180, 190, and no

>thermostat w/ every modification I made.  And until I put the new shroud on

>and the 7 blade fan I would always have a problem if I ran, 160 or no

>thermostat.  So after life was good and I could stop reading EVERY SINGLE

>ARTICLE ON COOLING I could find in Magazines, the net, and asking people, I

>got the bright idea to put a 6-71 BLOWER on my 400.  And if you think

>PONTIAC'S run hot normally, you have never tried to get them to run w/ a

>BLOWER.  Now I was up around 210-230 all the time, and the motor was only

>7.81:1 compression.  Now I really had to do my homework, as if I didn't

>before...LOL   I had to deep six the fan because it took two 3.5" fan spacers

>to keep the fan away from the blower belt, but it would put the fan w/in 1

>inch of the radiator.  Neither one of these things seemed god to me at 6,500

>rpms.  So at first I tried a light plastic Mr. Gasket type fan, which I

>removed because it was still close and didn't cool enough.  So I removed the

>fan and shroud (which had to be notched for the blower belt).  At this point

>I had to try electric fans (which never flow as much as a manual, depending

>on the manual).  I tried every brand and even tried 2 in the back w/ one

>pusher, which was never enough.  And at the same time w/ every thing I did I

>tried the 160, 180, 190 and no thermostat, I even tried a 180 and 190 HIGH

>PERFORMANCE thermostats (which actually work a little better).  But if you

>thought it was bad before, removing the thermostat and the 160 thermostat

>made the problem go threw the roof uncontrollably (further proof that

>removing or using too low of a thermostat can over heat your motor).  So I

>used the 190 HP thermostat which fixed the problem the most, but no cure.  I

>then started to say forget "FACTORY TYPE" electric fans and tried after

>market.  I purchased every and I mean EVERY electric fan Jegs and Summit sold

>that was supposedly HI-FLOW.  And here is where I can help out a lot of


>better than all the rest, including those 2 fan jobs, don't go threw the

>hassle because I have tried them all.  And for your information the worst

>fans are the ones that have aluminum "Flex" fans, like the ones you see on

>most old cars that dress up the motor (don't use these).  But that never

>solved my problem.  So next I called "Flow-Cooler", and they said I should

>spin the pump faster and use a higher pressure radiator cap, not for more

>flow but for more PRESSURE!!!  So my next move was to find out how to do

>this???  And I found a bunch of ways to slow down the water pump, but none to

>speed it up??  Then I came across it in an old PONTIAC book, using a water

>pump pulley off of a 455 that had AC, because this pulley is about 1/3

>smaller than a normal PONTIAC water pump pulley, which will spin the pump

>faster because it's smaller.  This with the BLACK MAGIC fan work out pretty

>good, but the problem got very severe when I pulled out the thermostat or put

>in anything lower than a 190, at this water pump speed 180 was starting to

>give problems (further proving my thermostat point).  But then I stopped

>listening to everyone and stopped thinking as my BIG 3 core radiator was

>enough, so I sold it for $100.00 and bought an Aluminum Griffen 2 core for

>$175.00 (new) the cores are much bigger that's why there is less cores.  This

>solved every problem except the 2 rear cyl. getting too hot.  And w/ this

>radiator I could again run a 160 thermostat (it never actually stayed at 160,

>it ran about 170, but didn't boil over).  Running no thermostat was still a

>problem but running a 180 was perfect, never left 180 degrees (which

>continues to prove my point).  But don't forget a BLOWER adds 15-20 degrees

>to any motor (Dyer's, BBS, Wieden, and B&M all agree to this), so I was tring

>to overcome this problem, obviously these problems wouldn't occur with stock

>or even moderately modified motors.  I was just letting you know to prove a

>point and show you which way to go w/ cooling. 

>Now I run a 475 cube PONTIAC, w/ 13.2:1 compression and block filled right up

>too the water passages, 4,800 rpm stall, and I now run at 170 degrees (in

>stop and go traffic) and driving between 180-185.  I actually have to turn my

>BLACK MAGIC fan off before reaching the staging line, because I need at least

>190 degrees to make a good run, if it's below this point the ET & MPH fall

>off because the combustion chamber is not hot enough (REMEMBER HEAT IS HORSE

>POWER).  In this car I run the same radiator, I blocked the spout from the

>front cover to the back of the motor (all this does is circulate water before

>the thermostat open, so does the little hole that connects to the intake,

>which I left open just in case), I run a Miezaire Water Pump (even before

>Warren Johnson did, this water pump is far superior to those little electric

>motors and the pulley to the stock pump), I also run water from the backs of

>the heads to below the thermostat housing in the intake, and no thermostat

>(because electric water pumps work better w/out 1, not enough pressure I

>guess).  If you would like to see pics of the cooling system check out my

>webpage, the pics should be there shortly now it's just pics of my 69

>FIREBIRD racing (and pulling a wheelie)----->> 

><A HREF="http://members.xoom.com/Joey455">Click Here to see my 69 BIRD


></A>.   Now my motor has all 8 cyl. only about 15 degrees difference w/ all

>of them, stock can be over 200 degrees hotter in the rear 2 cyl (these #'s

>are from a heat gun and an EGT sensor in the exhaust).  Thats about it, temp

>has never been a problem since that, but it was a long road to follow, so

>there is no need for you to travel down it, because I already have.


>And as far as the 160 or no thermostat argument goes, it just goes to show

>you PONTIAC'S are different and no simple equation is going to solve a

>PONTIAC cooling problem, because it can't take all variables into account. 

>And by using the "scientific method" I have learned that using no or too low

>of a thermostat in certain situation (from stock to Pro Stock) will make a

>motor overheat!!


>Hope my pain and suffering can save some of you a lot of heartache and wasted






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