Pontiac Tech Info
For now this will be a misc collection. As
it grows, I'll organize it.
Technical Article Index Index_Articles
Some good Tire
Info
Here is a good chart on Firebird
paint and plating info
Check here to see 67-67 subframe
differences
Check here to ID Firebird cocktail shakers
Tire Size Conversion http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/size_conversion.htm
I.D. 60's Pontiac Big Cars 60-65 66-69
Play ID the Spinner
Hubcaps
Here's a nice Rotissary built by Todd
Chynoweth
mailto:pinec@pitnet.net
Here's the Plans:
rotisser.htm rot0.htm
rot1.htm rot2.htm
rot3.htm
rot4.htm
rot5.htm rot6.htm
rot7.htm rot8.htm
Thanks to Niklas Ridell for sending me the
drawings
VCC2.NRIDELL@MEMO.VOLVO.SE
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a cooling story from Joey on the
GTO e-mail list
-----Original Message-----
From: Joey455FB@aol.com
<Joey455FB@aol.com>
To: badgoat@gwi.net
<badgoat@gwi.net>
Date: Monday, July 19, 1999 11:39
AM
Subject: Re: [gto2] Re: Coolant 'flowing
too fast' (long & technical)
>Ok, this is the LONG version of what I
did. But it has a very short
>conclusion, which is get the biggest
most efficient radiator you can find &
>use a quality water pump and
fan. If you are not interested in cooling,
>please do not read this whole message
because it will probably be long.
>
>HERE GOES:
>
>When I bought my 1st PONTIAC, a 69
FIREBIRD 400, it would occasionally run
>hot (200-230 degrees). And I
already had a good 3 core in it (good as in no
>leaks), but it still over
heated. First I tried running a 160 degree
>thermostat and the problem even
happened on cooler days, but not at night.
>So putting in a cooler thermostat
didn't help the problem, in fact it made it
>worst. Next I tried to totally
pull the thermostat and this only made the
>problem worst. Next I tried to
use a 190 thermostat, a certified GM
>Goodwrench mechanic told me to try
this. And it worked, my car instantly
>went to running 190-200 degrees, 200
being the highest. Although I am never
>happy w/ things like this because it
should stay where the thermostat open,
>if it doesn't this is an indication
that something is substandard for your
>application. And the fact that
in stop and go traffic the over heating
>problem would come back, just never as
bad (220 degrees). Next I checked
>into water pumps, so I dumped my cast
iron water pump and purchased a
>"Flow-Kooler" pump, and a pusher fan
from Jegs. The pump helped, but the
>pusher fan did more harm than good
because it blocked the radiator (this is
>not to say they never work, but not in
a situation where the system is on the
>edge). And at the same time,
every time I added a performance up grade the
>temp. problem started to come
back. But I got it running good w/ the new
>pump and a new fan shroud, but the
biggest help (and the cure) was a 7 blade
>fan out of a Suburban. At this
point I could run a 160 degree thermostat w/
>no problem. And you have to
realize I tried the 160, 180, 190, and no
>thermostat w/ every modification I
made. And until I put the new shroud on
>and the 7 blade fan I would always
have a problem if I ran, 160 or no
>thermostat. So after life was
good and I could stop reading EVERY SINGLE
>ARTICLE ON COOLING I could find in
Magazines, the net, and asking people, I
>got the bright idea to put a 6-71
BLOWER on my 400. And if you think
>PONTIAC'S run hot normally, you have
never tried to get them to run w/ a
>BLOWER. Now I was up around
210-230 all the time, and the motor was only
>7.81:1 compression. Now I really
had to do my homework, as if I didn't
>before...LOL I had to deep
six the fan because it took two 3.5" fan spacers
>to keep the fan away from the blower
belt, but it would put the fan w/in 1
>inch of the radiator. Neither
one of these things seemed god to me at 6,500
>rpms. So at first I tried a
light plastic Mr. Gasket type fan, which I
>removed because it was still close and
didn't cool enough. So I removed the
>fan and shroud (which had to be
notched for the blower belt). At this point
>I had to try electric fans (which
never flow as much as a manual, depending
>on the manual). I tried every
brand and even tried 2 in the back w/ one
>pusher, which was never enough.
And at the same time w/ every thing I did I
>tried the 160, 180, 190 and no
thermostat, I even tried a 180 and 190 HIGH
>PERFORMANCE thermostats (which
actually work a little better). But if you
>thought it was bad before, removing
the thermostat and the 160 thermostat
>made the problem go threw the roof
uncontrollably (further proof that
>removing or using too low of a
thermostat can over heat your motor). So I
>used the 190 HP thermostat which fixed
the problem the most, but no cure. I
>then started to say forget "FACTORY
TYPE" electric fans and tried after
>market. I purchased every and I
mean EVERY electric fan Jegs and Summit sold
>that was supposedly HI-FLOW. And
here is where I can help out a lot of
>people, THE BEST ELECTRIC FAN BOTTOM
LINE IS THE BLACK MAGIC FAN. It works
>better than all the rest, including
those 2 fan jobs, don't go threw the
>hassle because I have tried them
all. And for your information the worst
>fans are the ones that have aluminum
"Flex" fans, like the ones you see on
>most old cars that dress up the motor
(don't use these). But that never
>solved my problem. So next I
called "Flow-Cooler", and they said I should
>spin the pump faster and use a higher
pressure radiator cap, not for more
>flow but for more PRESSURE!!! So
my next move was to find out how to do
>this??? And I found a bunch of
ways to slow down the water pump, but none to
>speed it up?? Then I came across
it in an old PONTIAC book, using a water
>pump pulley off of a 455 that had AC,
because this pulley is about 1/3
>smaller than a normal PONTIAC water
pump pulley, which will spin the pump
>faster because it's smaller.
This with the BLACK MAGIC fan work out pretty
>good, but the problem got very severe
when I pulled out the thermostat or put
>in anything lower than a 190, at this
water pump speed 180 was starting to
>give problems (further proving my
thermostat point). But then I stopped
>listening to everyone and stopped
thinking as my BIG 3 core radiator was
>enough, so I sold it for $100.00 and
bought an Aluminum Griffen 2 core for
>$175.00 (new) the cores are much
bigger that's why there is less cores. This
>solved every problem except the 2 rear
cyl. getting too hot. And w/ this
>radiator I could again run a 160
thermostat (it never actually stayed at 160,
>it ran about 170, but didn't boil
over). Running no thermostat was still a
>problem but running a 180 was perfect,
never left 180 degrees (which
>continues to prove my point).
But don't forget a BLOWER adds 15-20 degrees
>to any motor (Dyer's, BBS, Wieden, and
B&M all agree to this), so I was tring
>to overcome this problem, obviously
these problems wouldn't occur with stock
>or even moderately modified
motors. I was just letting you know to prove a
>point and show you which way to go w/
cooling.
>Now I run a 475 cube PONTIAC, w/
13.2:1 compression and block filled right up
>too the water passages, 4,800 rpm
stall, and I now run at 170 degrees (in
>stop and go traffic) and driving
between 180-185. I actually have to turn my
>BLACK MAGIC fan off before reaching
the staging line, because I need at least
>190 degrees to make a good run, if
it's below this point the ET & MPH fall
>off because the combustion chamber is
not hot enough (REMEMBER HEAT IS HORSE
>POWER). In this car I run the
same radiator, I blocked the spout from the
>front cover to the back of the motor
(all this does is circulate water before
>the thermostat open, so does the
little hole that connects to the intake,
>which I left open just in case), I run
a Miezaire Water Pump (even before
>Warren Johnson did, this water pump is
far superior to those little electric
>motors and the pulley to the stock
pump), I also run water from the backs of
>the heads to below the thermostat
housing in the intake, and no thermostat
>(because electric water pumps work
better w/out 1, not enough pressure I
>guess). If you would like to see
pics of the cooling system check out my
>webpage, the pics should be there
shortly now it's just pics of my 69
>FIREBIRD racing (and pulling a
wheelie)----->>
><A
HREF="http://members.xoom.com/Joey455">Click Here to see my 69
BIRD
>(BOOKMARK THIS PAGE FOR FUTURE
REFERENCE)
></A>. Now my motor
has all 8 cyl. only about 15 degrees difference w/ all
>of them, stock can be over 200 degrees
hotter in the rear 2 cyl (these #'s
>are from a heat gun and an EGT sensor
in the exhaust). Thats about it, temp
>has never been a problem since that,
but it was a long road to follow, so
>there is no need for you to travel
down it, because I already have.
>
>And as far as the 160 or no thermostat
argument goes, it just goes to show
>you PONTIAC'S are different and no
simple equation is going to solve a
>PONTIAC cooling problem, because it
can't take all variables into account.
>And by using the "scientific method" I
have learned that using no or too low
>of a thermostat in certain situation
(from stock to Pro Stock) will make a
>motor overheat!!
>
>Hope my pain and suffering can save
some of you a lot of heartache and wasted
>money.
>
>Joey
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